Wednesday, February 22, 2006

Before Your Heart Starts Bleeding ...

Okay I don't want to be know as the "death penalty guy" but come on... You can find out some details of the crime Michael Morales was convicted of here. Do you want to honestly tell me that if this man cruelly bludgeoned, raped, stabbed, and dumped the body of a 17 year old girl that he deserves an "absolutely pain free death"?

I don't have time this morning to develop this but this sounds an awful lot like the euthanasia folks and their "right to die". Maybe there is a parallel here to be worked out.

Surely when the Founding Fathers formed the Constitution they didn't mean to say that any form of execution was cruel and unusual. Hanging was the prescribed form of execution in those days and it surely wasn't pain free. If it was pain free, I'd be happy for us to return to it especially since it was public and might have a bit more of a deterrent effect than our sanitized executions today.

5 Comments:

At 4:31 PM, Blogger Doctor Logic said...

Maybe we should ask ourselves how Jesus would kill this man?

Oh, wait. Jesus would have forgiven him.

I believe there are times of last resort when deadly force or miltary intervention are necessary. Yet, I find modern "pro-life" Christians are all too eager to push the button. There were times and places where devotion to Christianity meant pacifism and a commitment to non-violence. I guess that's passe.

If it was pain free, I'd be happy for us to return to it especially since it was public and might have a bit more of a deterrent effect than our sanitized executions today.

We lament that our children see so many fake murders on TV and videogames. Are you really so sure that America's children will be better off watching hundreds of real murders instead? Is it working for the Saudis?

 
At 11:51 AM, Blogger Matthew Bohling said...

To the above comment ... while Jesus certainly came to make forgiveness a reality for His people He wasn't against capital punishment. Instead he willingly took upon himself the capital punishment we deserved. In Acts 5 we see God exercising unilateral capital punishment on Ananias and Sapphira. In Romans 13 we see an affirmation that one of the roles of the state is to wield the sword.
My affirmation of the continuin validity of capital punishment is not an affirmation that simply the 1st use of the law is gospel. Instead, ideally we would be preaching the gospel to someone one their way to the death chamber. Islam differs from Christianity in that we insist on the necessity of internal transformation via the Holy Spirit; external constraint while just isn't sufficient to produce piety. But this doesn't mean that the state ought to not vindicate God's glory when it is defaced by humans in murder.
Second to last ... there is a ENORMOUS difference between murder (unjust killing) and capital punishment (just killing, a prefigurement of the final judgment visited now).
Last ... in our family worship this week my family read the account of God's execution of Sisera by Jael. It's shocking that God visits judgment on some in this life not waiting until the final judgment. But yet He has appointed the state as His agent of that very judgment rarely when His glory is wickedly defaced.

 
At 2:22 PM, Blogger Doctor Logic said...

Wow. I hardly know where to start.

Your interpretation of the Bible is a minority view. For example, the Pope seems to have a problem with the death penalty.

Of course, each Christian and Jew interprets the Bible in a manner that they find to be consistent with their own moral views. You have demonstrated your moral views quite clearly with your interpretation.

Islam differs from Christianity in that we insist on the necessity of internal transformation via the Holy Spirit; external constraint while just isn't sufficient to produce piety. But this doesn't mean that the state ought to not vindicate God's glory when it is defaced by humans in murder.

Ahh, those wacky Taliban! Their system was just, but insufficient!

What other crimes merit a death penalty? How about defacement of the environment? Atheism?

Just wondering what your ideal theocracy would look like.

 
At 10:17 AM, Blogger Matthew Bohling said...

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At 10:23 AM, Blogger Matthew Bohling said...

Responding briefly to the above comment:

1) Mine is a minority view only for the past 50 years or so. The other at least 4000 years of history since Noah has had a different view.

2) While each person "can" interpret the Bible in their own way, it is a univocal book given by God. God has a view on what ought to happen to people who take others lives in a pre-meditated fashion. You can find God's view in Genesis 9:6. God's view didn't change when Jesus came, since He's the same God who spoke in Genesis. Why then does Jesus say that we ought to turn the other cheek? Isn't he talking about not punishing people who deserve it? Notice that in that situation, Jesus isn't saying that an offender has taken someone's life but rather has lightly injured them physically. It seems that people in Jesus' day were into retribution and Jesus wanted people to see that they didn't have to give retribution for small offenses. This doesn't turn over what Jesus in Genesis 9:6 though.

3) Christians do believe in common grace and yes that means that atheists and the Taliban can get things right occasionally despite their wrong beliefs. I didn't say the Taliban's system was entirely just but at the point where it crosses the Bible's teaching it is. The difference can be seen in the difference between the Taliban and Christianity on what should happen to a thief. In Islam you lose your hand depriving you of the ability make restitution. This is an attempt at external constraint. In Christianity you make restitution after repentance which focus on internal transformation.

4) I purposefully only dealt with murder since it is in a different category of offenses Biblically. The death penalty for murder occurs before the constutiting of Israel as a theocracy and thus is a "common grace" punishment for murder not a "theocracy-specific" punishment for murder. I don't advocate a theocracy for today.

 

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